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Subject: "what does the virus do after it enters your body"     Previous Topic | Next Topic
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Conferences Technical Topic #2763
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Angelika
Member since Aug-18-08
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Apr-22-08, 09:10 PM (CST)
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"what does the virus do after it enters your body"
 
   LAST EDITED ON Aug-27-08 AT 05:08 PM (CDT) by muffin (admin)
 
Sorry if this has been discussed recently, I can't find any post that explains exactly this and it has been suggested to me that I post here instead of talking about it in support.

What happens when the virus first enters your body if you don't have antibodies at all? Does it start replicating until your immune system deals with it? Does it matter how much of the virus you are exposed to in terms of how many nerves get infected with it which would affect frequency of future outbreaks?

Does it matter if you've had sex once or fifteen times while someone had an outbreak in terms of how much of the virus will attack the nerves and thus cause worse symptoms?

Someone said that it doesn't matter how much of the virus enters as it starts replicating inside your body anyway till your immunte system learns how to kill it but I am not really sure on this, it would make sense that the more of the virus you get, the worse the infection would be?

I hope someone can come along and explain this.

Thank you

Who among mortals may boast himself born with a fortune beyond reach of harm? - Aeschylus


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  Subject     Author     Message Date     ID  
  RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body C16679admin Apr-22-08 1
     RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body Angelika Apr-22-08 2
         RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body windyadmin Apr-23-08 3
             RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body Angelika Apr-23-08 4
                 RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body windyadmin Apr-23-08 5
                     RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body Angelika Apr-23-08 6
                         RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body windyadmin Apr-23-08 7
                             RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body Angelika Apr-23-08 8
                                 RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body windyadmin Apr-24-08 9
  RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body Sunako Apr-24-08 10
     RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body jericho Jan-14-10 11

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C16679admin
Member since Aug-29-06
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Apr-22-08, 10:04 PM (CST)
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1. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #0
 
   Here, the title of this thread doesn't indicate that this stuff is discussed, but I'm pretty sure it's this thread...look mostly at the posts by Windy and Howl--I think the links for the animations are there.

http://racoon.com/dcforum/tech/2733.html

C.


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Angelika
Member since Aug-18-08
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Apr-22-08, 11:36 PM (CST)
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2. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #1
 
   Thank you C. that was really helpful.

Of course I still have a question specifically about something Windy said in the thread.

"From animal studies, we know that the amount of latent viral dna in the ganglia is related to severity of disease. More cells infected results in more symptoms. It's reasonable to assume that the same is true for humans. I don't know the answer to the multiple copies per cell question."

I was just wondering, if you've been exposed to the virus over and over by having sex a lot during the period when the other person had an outbreak, does that necessarily mean that there would be more latent viral DNA in the ganglia?

Or is the amount of latent viral DNA in the ganglia depended on anything else?

Oh and Windy I am so hopeful that you said that for the first three years you had so many outbreaks. My boyfriend has had about that many as well and he's had it for three years. I am really hoping that things will calm down and that he won't have it this way forever. Windy, were you on antivirals during this time at all?

Thanks for answering.

Angelika

Who among mortals may boast himself born with a fortune beyond reach of harm? - Aeschylus


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windyadmin
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Apr-23-08, 06:52 AM (CST)
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3. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #2
 
I had no antivirals until my eighth year. The two H+ women I'd been with told me that acyclovir never helped them, so I didn't bother trying it.

>
>I was just wondering, if you've been exposed to the virus
>over and over by having sex a lot during the period when the
>other person had an outbreak, does that necessarily mean
>that there would be more latent viral DNA in the ganglia?
>

Gotta be real careful about words like "necessarily" with this kind of thing. I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is unknown, but yeah, I think it's possible that multiple inoculations of the virus in a short time could result in a more severe case. There's no way we can test this (in humans).

>Or is the amount of latent viral DNA in the ganglia depended
>on anything else?
>

There are probably a lot of factors that influence that. Things to consider would include the amount of virus on the skin of the source partner, the susceptibility of the skin on the, um, destination(?) partner (is it mucous membrane, keratinized skin, or are there any abrasions?), whether anything has been done recently to reduce the amount of virus on the source partner (antiviral meds, microbicidal gel, recent washing), immune system of the receiving partner, and probably other things.

Note that I mentioned a couple of things that can be controlled - antivirals are known to reduce the copy numbers of virus on the skin. Microbicides should do the same, if they ever get to market. I didn't mention condoms above, but those should reduce exposure, too. Results from the Valtrex transmission study showed that use of meds or condoms made it more likely that transmissions would be asymptomatic. The likely explanation is that the size of the inoculating dose had an effect on this.



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Angelika
Member since Aug-18-08
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Apr-23-08, 01:44 PM (CST)
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4. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #3
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-23-08 AT 02:33 PM (CST)
 
Thanks Windy that does clarify what I was wondering.

Edit: One more question, have they done any studies on what the amount of virus on the skin of a person who has an outbreak depends on?

Like do people who have mild outbreak (no sores, just redness and irritation in one area) have less virus present on the skin than people with multiple sores etc? Also someone said once here that you shed the same amount of virus from the whole genital area as you do from the actual sore during an outbreak. Is that correct?

Who among mortals may boast himself born with a fortune beyond reach of harm? - Aeschylus


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windyadmin
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Apr-23-08, 04:18 PM (CST)
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5. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #4
 

>Edit: One more question, have they done any studies on what
>the amount of virus on the skin of a person who has an
>outbreak depends on?
>

Good question, but I don't know.


>Like do people who have mild outbreak (no sores, just
>redness and irritation in one area) have less virus present
>on the skin than people with multiple sores etc?

Not necessarily. Viral counts can be as high when there are no symptoms as when there are symptoms.

Also
>someone said once here that you shed the same amount of
>virus from the whole genital area as you do from the actual
>sore during an outbreak. Is that correct?

Yes, it's possible to be shedding as much asymptomatic site as from the outbreak site, but you don't always shed from multiple sites. I don't want people to get the idea that every time they have an outbreak, their whole boxer shorts area is infectious.


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Angelika
Member since Aug-18-08
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Apr-23-08, 04:26 PM (CST)
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6. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #5
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-23-08 AT 05:09 PM (CST)
 
do PCR swabs determine the amount of virus on the skin? I would think that if they do, they would be able to determine the difference between the amout of virus from a sore versus from an asymptomatic site during an outbreak versus asymptomatic shedding.

But from some of your answers Windy it seems that they are not able to say that and from other answers it seems that they are, so I am confused on that point. You said that viral counts can be just as high when no symptoms are present as when they are. Are the viral counts determined by the PCR swabs?

You also said that sometimes virus gets picked up by a PCR swab but we have not idea if the amount of the virus is enough to infect. Does that mean that some asymptomatic shedding produces more virus than other? So sometimes during asymptomatic shedding there is as much virus on the skin as during an actual outbreak but other times the amount of virus is a lot smaller and we don't know for sure if it's enough to infect?

Who among mortals may boast himself born with a fortune beyond reach of harm? - Aeschylus


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windyadmin
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Apr-23-08, 08:28 PM (CST)
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7. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #6
 
It is possible to measure the quantity of virus with PCR, but it's not done in all studies. The quantity of virus can vary from one episode to the next, and it varies from day to day during an episode (it goes up and then it goes down.)

We don't know for sure how much virus it takes to infect. It's difficult to get that kind of data. My guess is that it's somewhere around the amount needed to get a positive culture under ideal conditions, which is more than it takes to get a positive PCR result. But that's a guess.


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Angelika
Member since Aug-18-08
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Apr-23-08, 08:33 PM (CST)
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8. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #7
 
   Thank you very much Windy. So just to clarify, you are saying that some studies have included the quantity of virus and found that sometimes the virus is just as high during asymptomatic shedding as it is during an actual outbreak?

Who among mortals may boast himself born with a fortune beyond reach of harm? - Aeschylus


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windyadmin
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Apr-24-08, 07:05 AM (CST)
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9. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #8
 
Yeah. Think of it this way - the symptoms are a product of your immune system's response to the virus, and the severity of that response might depend on something other than the amount of virus on the skin.



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Sunako
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Apr-24-08, 11:16 AM (CST)
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10. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #0
 
   LAST EDITED ON Apr-24-08 AT 11:16 AM (CST)
 
Thanks for interesting thread.
I've read the thread you gave link too, and there Howl mentions "Herpes antivirals slow down the replication of herpes in the nerve cells."

this is the question i alwais wonder about. Do antivirals really pass through membrane into neurons? And if they do why is it impossible to cut off the infection at all? only because antivirals just block replication and didn't cause any damage to viral copies already existing?

are there is some scientific articles/sources explaining how exactly antivirals act inside neuros?


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jericho
Member since Jan-10-10
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Jan-14-10, 06:59 PM (CST)
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11. "RE: what does the virus do after it enters your body"
In response to message #10
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-14-10 AT 07:02 PM (CST)
 
>this is the question i alwais wonder about. Do antivirals
>really pass through membrane into neurons? And if they do
>why is it impossible to cut off the infection at all? only
>because antivirals just block replication and didn't cause
>any damage to viral copies already existing?

Yes, the antivirals pass into the neurons. Antivirals are basically nucleoside (DNA building blocks) analogues that look a lot like the DNA building blocks needed for viral replication. When the viral DNA is built and one of these 'fakes' is added to the sequence, replication fails. But the original viral DNA (the 'instructions' on how to construct more virus) is unaffected.

This also explains why virus is still produced even when taking antivirals - sometimes the replication process picks up the right nucleosides, which are floating around with the 'fake' nucleosides, and sometimes the fakes. So viral replication continues, but is much less efficient because so many units are 'defective'.


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